Churches have been working quietly but are willing to do more
Bishop Edghill and Pastor Smith discuss the churches' response to current problems
Stabroek News
March 17, 2004
Political activism is not unknown to the churches, be they Christian, Moslem or Hindu. In the political history of Guyana, the Church, mainly the Christian denomination, has found itself in the midst of the struggle for independence, and post-independence, in the forefront of opposition to the worst excesses of the Forbes Burnham and Desmond Hoyte administrations.
However, since the Cheddi Jagan administration took office in 1992, the voice of the Church has not been as strident as it used to be. Moreover, some say it has been remarkably low in recent months despite the unexplained killings that have stumped the police and the allegations which have been made of official involvement in the creation and running of death squads, which are said to be responsible for those unexplained murders.
Bishop Juan Edghill, the chairman of the Guyana Council of Churches and Pastor John Smith, the General Superintendent of the Assemblies of God in Guyana and one of the more vibrant church groups, reject the suggestion that the Church has not been active.
The Guyana Council of Churches which Bishop Edghill heads, consists of some sixteen denominations among which are Anglican and Roman Catholic churches, the Methodist and Lutheran churches, the Outreach Ministries International, the Ethiopian Orthodox Church, the AME and AME Zion churches, the Salvation Army, the Guyana Missionary Baptists, the Nazarene Church, the Presbytery of Guyana the Alleluia Group, the Moravian Church and the Presbyterians.
The Assemblies of God Church in Guyana is a member church of the Guyana Evangeli-cal Fellowship.
President Bharrat Jagdeo (second from right) and PNC leader Robert Corbin watching the Golden Arrow Head being hoisted at Prayer and Praise held at the Square of the Revolution last year.
Speaking with Current Affairs about the issue Bishop Edghill says that as a bishop and as a leader of the Christian denomination, which is the single largest constituency in the society, he will be the first to admit that "the problems that exist in Guyana could not have [existed] except the Church was part of the problem".
"By nature of the fact that we are such a large and influential constituency in the country and we have these grave problems it means we would have played a role by things we would have done or things we ought to have done and we did not do."
Smith's view which he says is a personal one, is that the response would be dependent on the emphases of the various churches and these vary from church to church. He explains that the Church is a creation of God and it must follow the Word of God. It is something that those who call upon the Church must understand. He points out too that the Church must be allowed to do its work, pointing out that on the day appointed for worship the Church has to compete with a host of other activities for the attention of the people.
Social Work
He explains too the Church's low profile engagement with the poor as being due to its not doing things for popularity, pointing out that the churches are involved in feeding programmes in schools across the country, and an aggressive programme of empowering people for jobs with some of them getting loans to start up small businesses. He pointed to the work of Habitat for Humanity, Food for the Poor and the Salvation Army's work among the drug addicts and other substance abusers and the orphanages which various churches run.
Smith says too that the Church is also engaged in teaching its members biblical economics in how to make ends meet as well as providing remedial lessons and other social action programmes.
The nature of the crises
Edghill says that from the standpoint of the Church, the country has three crises - political, economic and moral. He sees the political crisis as deriving from the feeling that elections are ethnic censuses.
But he stressed that Christianity is a religion does not encourage, preach or by its very principles ought not to practice discrimination. "Lots of the candidates from both the major and minor political parties are persons who would have embraced the Christian faith. But inasmuch as we have that, we still have race politics."
Pastor Smith says there is no crisis but that there is a series of crises - economic, social, political, crime which are all areas of concern to the average Guyanese and since the Church is part of the Guyanese fabric, "if it doesn't affect the Church directly, it affects the Church indirectly through its members who are part of the society."
And he attributes the economic crisis for example as being in part due to the need of a family to make ends meet or one group not getting enough or not getting what they had asked for, and referred to the Georgetown Chamber and Commerce asking the Minister of Finance to increase the income tax threshold "to encourage expenditure"
"So when the Budget comes out it may not address the areas - there are pockets of poverty in the nation which vary from place to place and person to person -so we have to address that as one panelist said the other day, there are a set of angry people and their need have got to be addressed to avoid a further increase in anger."
Moreover, he said that with various price rises it is a big task for households to be able to make ends meet.
Describing the economic crisis, Edghill says that this is rooted in the distribution of wealth. He explained that the Church by its very constitution and philosophical positions is supposed to seriously deal with the question of poverty. He said that Jesus who is the Christian community's supreme example, declared, "The spirit of the Lord God is upon him who preaches the good news to the poor," and, according to the Bishop, "The good news to the poor is that you do not have to be poor any more."
"The reality in Guyana is that there is a lot of hopelessness - people feel permanently displaced; that their plight is unnoticed, which are all things people have said to us as the leadership of the Church - and I will be the first to admit that the Church has not been totally responsive to some of these issues."
The Moral Crisis
Addressing the issue of the moral crisis, Bishop Edghill says that this is due to the fact that values are lost and people are not living with a sense of reverence and fear for God. "There are no truths and right and wrong. The only issue is if you're caught. There is no pull to something called personal conviction; living by way of principles."
Smith too sees the loss of values as distressing and notes the need for the values of the society to change. "It is amazing whereever you go you have to pay extra for everything," citing for example the people who expect to be given something for directing you out to a legitimate parking area or to corrupt officials asking for their perceived pound of flesh.
He says changing the value system is a task for the whole society with the Church leading the way, even though at times it is perceived to be a "loose cannon". But he asserts that the loyalty of the Church is to the Word of God.
Other aspects of what Pastor Smith describes as the social crisis include the problem of HIV/AIDS, spousal abuse about which he says there is need for more consultations with the Church, which has made and is making a valuable contribution to the society.
He notes that there is a need for a lot of education as people are still ignorant about how the disease can be contacted. Also he says the "safe sex" message does not address the issue of promiscuity and that the society has to reach out to the victims of the disease and to remove the stigma associated with their suffering.
Smith says that efforts have to be made to deal with the mother to child transmission of the virus to allow children the opportunity to grow into adults.
Commenting on the Church's response, Bishop Edghill concedes that the Church had been overwhelmed by the political crisis. But he asserts that "in recent years there has been an awakening and an enlightening and a reasonable sense of militancy on the part of the church leaders to address these issues because we could no longer fool ourselves into thinking we are to deal with the spiritual and the politicians are to deal with the natural physical things."
"It is the one human being we are dealing with and that human being has spiritual needs and also has physical needs," he explains. As a consequence he says you will find throughout the network of the churches of the various denominations that "you have leaders emerging at the national level, the regional levels and at the level of the villages who are engaging themselves in national life." And he says, "They have done this even to the extent where politicians have been seeking to push them back into place where they were by saying `this is not for you folks, church leaders ought not to get involved in these issues because of a fear."
Smith explains what seems to have been inaction as being due to the Church being cautious due to the fact that its congregations are made up of persons from both sides of the political divide. But he notes that there are issues so fundamental that the Church is obliged to speak out.
Asked if the Church is being militant enough, Smith it "seems to be reactive rather than pro-active and that in itself means there is a delay in action as some [churchmen] see their role as in-house dealing with spiritual matters rather than dealing with the total man." But he says that sometimes we have to be pro-active rather than reactive.
Sexual Orientation
One of the examples of the Church's involvement in national affairs, according to the bishop, was the way the church leaders got involved when they felt an amendment to the constitution to prevent discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation. "It was a new approach to Christianity and religious leadership in the country where the church leaders did not do just the traditional prayer, march and protest but they engaged in the discussion and the debater at the national level, taking on political and other players who had differing views with view of bringing the nation into a particular place of realisation even though these were political issues."
He said there was intense lobbying of politicians, members of parliament and political parties as well as the engagement of the media at press conferences, advocating positions. These he said were things that were not done before especially when a comparison is made between 2003 and 1995 when abortion became law. "You can see the shift - the boldness of the church leaders in dealing with the issues; the intellectual depth at which the issues were dealt with. It was not just the emotional extremism of God will judge you if you do this but there was some sense of intellectual depth of discussion and understanding of the issues and that came at different levels."
Smith agrees that the campaign against the legislation to protect sexual orientation was the correct position for the Church to take since what is wrong cannot be made a right.
The dialogue
He said too that while there was the gap in the dialogue between President Bharrat Jagdeo and then Leader of the Opposition Desmond Hoyte, "the Church was aggressively involved in engaging both sides in discussion and seeking privately, while others were doing their stuff with big fancy initiatives in the media, understanding their concerns and trying to get them addressed so that we could have had a solution."
Bishop Edghill, who chaired the meetings, said that both the PPP and the PNCR found the Church's initiative very interesting as they had an opportunity to explain their concerns. Also, he said, the church leaders despite their prejudices and preferences were prepared to deal with issues, such as distribution of house lots on principle as well as others such as extra-judicial killings, rights and the Police Force. "These were discussions church leaders were engaged in and getting to the heart of the matter rather than just making the political statements and encouraging the grandstanding. We got to the hard core issues and brought guidance to these matters."
Smith says that another way the Church goes about trying to get the two major parties together is to get them to come together in prayer and that this had been done last year and that somehow or the other it seems to work. "But of course what happens after they leave prayers is another story," he observed, adding that they insist that they are both there which is nice cooperation in spiritual matters.
Asked what should be the Church's preferred role, Smith says it would depend on the issue. "There is still stigma that the Church should not be involved in politics. What would be nice is to have a dialogue with all the leading politicians as they tend to only run to us when they seem to be getting no place."
He observed that when the politicians are getting no place then they call on the church to speak out. "My personal take on speaking out is that there is nobody listening. Everybody has his or her own ideas and own platform. And if they are not listening, the first law of dialogue is that they have got to listen as you would not know what I say until I speak and you would have to listen to what I am saying."
But he notes that some politicians want to use the Church and they have to be told no can do!
But Smith sees the problems as one of "leadership from top to bottom". He said that the present leaders lack a clear-cut vision of what Guyana should be and the direction it should be taking in the nation and in every stratum of society.
As a result of the lack of vision, Smith says adapting a biblical adage, the people of Guyana are perishing.
Working Quietly
Edghill said that the Church is doing its work quietly but that often times people don't like the quiet work of the Church because the intent of its work is not for fame, for political mileage or popularity. "The aim of our work is to bring about national healing, reconciliation, a society of trust where we can create a space where every Guyanese can feel wanted and feel a part of [the society]."
Also he said that the church has nominees on a number of state agencies playing meaningful roles in the wiping out of corruption, the setting up of proper systems, bringing state actors and other political actors into a sense of accountability. He notes too that the church's nominee heads one of the commissions dealing with the issues of race head on. (Bishop Edghill is chairman of the Ethnic Relations Commission which recent amendments to the constitution created.)
To counter any possibility of religion being used to create conflict, Edghill said that the Church through the Guyana Council of Churches has initiated an inter-faith dialogue "to ensure there is no religious conflict but rather there is religious tolerance."
"Now we have what is called an IRO (Inter-Religious Organisation) which is aggressively pursuing its work and ... that the inter-faith dialogue is healthy and healthy."
Governance
Smith who identifies governance as one of the crises facing the country, says that there could be progress if there is more goodwill on both sides. He says that too often both sides deal with their areas of difference rather than with their areas of agreement.
About improving governance, Edghill says, "We now have persons who are approaching their work not just as a means of getting a salary but with a perspective of nation-building, bringing integrity to office and using their faith as a light to guide in their places of employment because those are some of the things we have been teaching our people."
As a result, the man or woman who is a lawyer, doctor, general manager, or consultant and coming from the Christian community is being told that he/she has "the call of God just like the preacher but their calling is not the pulpit from which to preach but to work in that environment." He says that those contributions are paying off.
Death Squads
About the allegations of the existence of a "death squad" Bishop Edghill says that the Christian community convened meetings on the issue and had issued a statement. He asserts that the Christian community is concerned not only about the "death squad" killings but other unexplained killings that have gone on in this country over a period of time. "We have called for an inquiry into these killings. We need to find out the truth, we want the nation to know the truth. This is our position. So we have called and asked that a mechanism be put in place that is bigger and wider than just allegations of the existence of a death squad."
The Bishop observes that there might be "death squads" and other activities that contribute to the culture of violence that is taking place in the country about which the nation deserves to know the truth.
Moreover he says that the concerns being expressed by his colleagues in the church and a number of leaders across the Christian community are that the allegations and specifically those made by George Bacchus are serious ones. He said that Cabinet Secretary and government spokesman, Dr Roger Luncheon shares this view
"Our concern and appeal is that the individual(s) who might have knowledge about the operations (of the death squad(s)) as it relates to these allegations should not just merely leave this nation in suspense by making a claim and then disappearing."
He said that the "Church leaders have made it clear that they are prepared to facilitate any process where these individuals can feel free and without fear to make their statements to people of reason and if found to be credible the Church has a commitment to champion the cause to ensure that this evil is rooted out from our nation."
The Bishop says that if credible information that can be substantiated comes before him as a church leader, "I will lead the fight. It wouldn't have to be a political fight. It will be a moral fight because killings, executions, [are] heinous crimes that we have seen and heard about in Guyana ought not to be."
He asserts that whoever is the mastermind behind them, "the Church will use its influence and support to ensure that the individual(s) receive the necessary sanction and we will ensure the rule of law prevails."
However he cautions that we cannot allow the situation where people make statements which become a political row and then they disappear.
He says that the Church's position relates not only to death squad allegations but also allegations about corruption, hate and malice where people have been spited and denied access because of their race or religion. "Once these things come to our attention ... we give the space where people can come and talk to us freely without fear and once we are convinced and we have received the information, not from statements in media but the truth, Church leaders have the responsibility to deal with them in the way that they must be dealt with."
The Bishop, referring to the case of the woman and child who were found dead in their home on Public Road, Kitty, said that the Church was concerned about their deaths because it was learnt that she should have been a witness in a high court case. "That's a serious matter. Then we don't have justice in Guyana."
He said too that the leadership of the Church has informed their congregations of the Church's position. He asserted, "Christianity is pro-righteousness, anti-sin and anti-lawlessness," and that while people accuse the Church of shifting its position from time to time he says that is viewed from the prism of their political framework. "Remember we support what is right and condemn what is wrong! It has nothing to do with who's wearing the shoes."
Smith agrees and asserts that the Church cannot sanction extra-judicial killing as this could only lead to anarchy and a state of lawlessness. He says too that it does not have to speak out because it is plainly obvious to people, and what he is waiting to see is when the line would be drawn.
Lawlessness
Addressing the issue of lawlessness, Bishop Edghill asserts, "The disease cannot be in the fruit if it was not in the root," and added that the lawlessness did not spring up overnight. "When political players felt that they needed to get a greater grasp on society and they agreed among themselves in their caucuses to miniaturise the importance and relevance of the Church they sowed the seeds of the lawlessness that we have today!"
He said that before then, the priest, the pastor, the pandit, the headmaster and the people in the village could have gone in and settled a domestic problem or could have taken a teenage boy who was behaving "mannish" to their office and talked and counseled him and generally tried to help him through his problem. But when, he said, political players through their arrogance or happenstance, started to demonise and miniaturise the relevance of these very same people in society "we were asking for anarchy at the level of the community thinking that we can control it from the centre". "We did not realise that it's families which make up communities that make up the nation and if we destroy the family we are the community and when you destroy the community you are destroying the nation."
He recalled the days when the clerics were called demons in robes and when the church was described as a non-productive sector and viewed as a liability - "they are leaches; they are sucking from society."
He recalled too that the privileges the churches used to enjoy to finance their social programmes were removed by the administration before 1992 and the present administration has not re-instated them. He recalls that years ago a businessman's financial contribution to the churches' social programmes was tax deductible but that now the government considers it an "unnecessary expenditure".
He recalled too the days when you had to have written permission for a Bible club to be formed in a school and for a pastor who lived in the same compound as a school housed in a building owned by the Church to talk to the children of that school about principles.
"Thank God somebody has seen the light and now the President has asked the religious leaders to build a moral code for character building and he must be commended for that... and right now there is a task force working on that [code] to be taught in schools."
The Bishop asserted that the Church had the willing hearts and ready hands to do the work but that it was felt that religion ought not to be too prominent in society, the politicians and bureaucrats placed barriers in the way of the Church.
But he says, "All the Church needs is encouragement", and he says too, "I would want to appeal to an end to church-bashing. From the media, especially talk show hosts and political players in the major as well as the minor political parties. Whenever they want to hide their own shortcomings they find people to bash and often times they find the Church."
Willing to do more
He said that church leaders want to come out and do more but they are afraid of being branded political one way or the other. And this could be their death if they do not have the skin of a rhinoceros. So they prefer to stay behind their church doors and deal with the converted. "But we bury the dead. When the police kill the criminals we bury the dead and preach nice sermons. When Police are killed by the criminals we bury the dead. When the nation is in crisis everybody wants prayers. When it is calm go back to your corner."
Smith says that in the hinterland communities which tend to be smaller than those on the coastland and where they tend to revolve around the church and a lot of whose members are counsellors in one way or the other, the Church has space to make a contribution. However, in the city he says it is a melting pot and we have to be [almost evangelical in our work].
Another factor inhibiting the churches, particularly the vibrant evangelical and Pentecostal churches, is their ignorance of the existence of a number of bodies about which they know nothing. "We are not always aware of these things and we would like to be involved, but be informed first so that we make a choice to be involved."
He says that if it is correct that 51 per cent of the population is Christian then you are marginalizing 51 per cent of the population if you leave the Church out.
And commenting on what the Church can do in national affairs, he points to the Special Day of Prayer being organised by the churches of Trinidad and Tobago and Barbados in the dispute over access to the exclusive economic zone. Those are things about which the Church must speak out the Assembly of God pastor asserted.
He said that the Church is suffering because it is not allowed to play its role, particularly its work in helping people to change their lives xo make a difference in the society.